tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post2213290850945875115..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: REPOST: Liturgical Theology & the AssumptionThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-89151190113556728582015-08-29T19:14:29.519-05:002015-08-29T19:14:29.519-05:00Kavanaugh was always a mystery to me. One the on h...Kavanaugh was always a mystery to me. One the on hand, he often had astitute insighta into the liturgy in general. On the other hand, he seems to have towed the party line when it came to the Pauline liturgy and contemporary liturgical theory.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08221775658172409591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-37728147102641195152015-08-29T19:14:21.614-05:002015-08-29T19:14:21.614-05:00Kavanaugh was always a mystery to me. One the on h...Kavanaugh was always a mystery to me. One the on hand, he often had astitute insighta into the liturgy in general. On the other hand, he seems to have towed the party line when it came to the Pauline liturgy and contemporary liturgical theory.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08221775658172409591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-71445639989147400392015-08-29T19:12:05.005-05:002015-08-29T19:12:05.005-05:00Excellent insights into the problems with Signum m...Excellent insights into the problems with Signum magnum and the revisions to the office.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08221775658172409591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-81974794243092866552015-08-29T19:11:56.977-05:002015-08-29T19:11:56.977-05:00Excellent insights into the problems with Signum m...Excellent insights into the problems with Signum magnum and the revisions to the office.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08221775658172409591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-56498849513803409202015-08-25T11:26:13.764-05:002015-08-25T11:26:13.764-05:00Thanks a lot for the first comments, that put thin...Thanks a lot for the first comments, that put things into perspective.Konstantinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13701303189143549671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-13986877928620313892015-08-15T18:53:01.409-05:002015-08-15T18:53:01.409-05:00I'd like to know exactly why some traditionali...I'd like to know exactly why some traditionalists glory in the revised propers for the Assumption while others just stand by and let them continue unopposed, even if they have personal misgivings.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-453266393184212402015-08-15T18:18:28.396-05:002015-08-15T18:18:28.396-05:00Excellent, illuminating post. Thank you, and a mos...Excellent, illuminating post. Thank you, and a most happy Feast of the Assumption to you and all readers.SAFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01543067886540397691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-79281116106895531392015-08-15T16:02:26.571-05:002015-08-15T16:02:26.571-05:00Thank You, The Rad Trad.
A Tour de Force.
Gaudea...Thank You, The Rad Trad.<br /><br />A Tour de Force.<br /><br />Gaudeamus omnes in Domino !<br />Zephyrinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01179350648709554049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-66927494042750332342015-08-15T16:00:37.792-05:002015-08-15T16:00:37.792-05:00The Maestro's Comment is a perfect summation o...The Maestro's Comment is a perfect summation of The Rad Trad's wonderful Post.<br /><br />Pope Pius XI's "Quas Primas" states it all, perfectly, and puts into perspective the horrendous damage effected on The Church's Liturgical Year by recent eliminations, and drastic changes in Liturgical content, of The Church's Feasts, many over a thousand years old.Zephyrinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01179350648709554049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-59977746072925266182015-08-15T15:03:03.455-05:002015-08-15T15:03:03.455-05:00I like this quote from Fr. Florovsky ("The Ba...I like this quote from Fr. Florovsky ("The Banished Heart" by Geoffrey Hull, p. 28): "The Church is first of alll a worshipping community. Worship comes first, doctrine and discipline second. The lex orandi has a privileged priority in the life of Christians. The lex credendi depends on the devotional experience and vision of the Church. On the other hand, Christian worship is itself to a large extent dogmatic - a worshipping witness to the truth of Revelation. The lyrical element in the worship has a subordinate place."<br /><br />This is why I, too, lament the loss of the older Assumption Mass formularies. The 1950 Mass added novelties and repetitions, without adding anything truly profitable.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-84583974208740540092015-08-15T14:45:27.645-05:002015-08-15T14:45:27.645-05:00BTW, it was through constant exposure to the litur...BTW, it was through constant exposure to the liturgy that St. Augustine was converted to the Faith, as Aidan Kavanagh had stated in his book "On Liturgical Theology." That book is a must read to see how far from the traditional understanding of the liturgy the Western church had gone away from.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-48954081703243353002015-08-15T14:40:29.524-05:002015-08-15T14:40:29.524-05:00The RadTrad is applying the axiom, "Let the l...The RadTrad is applying the axiom, "Let the law of supplication determine the law of belief," by St. Prosper of Aquitaine. Liturgy is even more basic than catechism, since "right worship" is the main duty of a Catholic. Belief does affect the liturgy, but isn't the basis of liturgy. This is the correct idea, subordinating secondary theology (catechism, etc.) to the liturgy. This way of understanding was lost in the times after the unfortunate separation of the East and West.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-90597013242057492042015-08-15T12:32:30.439-05:002015-08-15T12:32:30.439-05:00I do not think the Rad Trad's claim is either ...I do not think the Rad Trad's claim is either that the liturgy is the main source of theoloical insight or that it is like a magic conveyer of theological knowledge. If we take theology to mean, simply, the knowledge of God, the claim is rather that in the liturgy we know God more intimately than we know Him in any other context, provided we participate in the liturgy as we should. We're not talking so much about theology as a science here, in the academic sense in which it is normally conceived, but in a more experiential sense of encounter. The mystic has a greater knowledge of God than the academic theologian. <br /><br />Pope Pius XI wrote in "Quas Primas": "People are instructed in the truths of faith, and brought to appreciate the inner joys of religion far more effectually by the annual celebration of our sacred mysteries than by any official pronouncement of the teaching of the Church. Such pronouncements usually reach only a few and the more learned among the faithful; feasts reach them all; the former speak but once, the latter speak every year -- in fact, forever. The church's teaching affects the mind primarily; her feasts affect both mind and heart, and have a salutary effect upon the whole of man's nature. Man is composed of body and soul, and he needs these external festivities so that the sacred rites, in all their beauty and variety, may stimulate him to drink more deeply of the fountain of God's teaching, that he may make it a part of himself, and use it with profit for his spiritual life. "MaestroJMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06552734342224710734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-30095018405068961982015-08-15T05:33:20.892-05:002015-08-15T05:33:20.892-05:00Another example of your vast liturgical knowledge....Another example of your vast liturgical knowledge. Nonetheless, one objection:<br /><br />I think the concept of the liturgy as some sort of main source for theological insight as should be reconsidered. I've read a similar assertion to the one in your introduction on John R's blog and have to say that I rather disagree. I would be interested if there have been pre-VII Popes or Fathers making such statements. <br /><br />Mass is not some type of magic wand that conveys theological knowledge, especially if you don't understand the liturgical language. When the missionaries went to Africa, they didn't go there to let the liturgy catechize the folks. They PREACHED the Faith. That doesn't mean the missionaries didn't care about the liturgy. Far from it. But how should anyone understand Mass if nobody tells them what it is about? This is where real catechism and orthodox preaching come into play. Very rarely someone who's interested in learning more about Catholicism will have some sort of epiphany hearing Mass. I wouldn't recommend them starting with Denzinger, but wouldn't send them to Mass, either. I'd rather tell them to pick up some decent Catechism. Even Fr. Alphonse Ratisbonne had his entire theological knowledge infused outside Mass and that's probably one of the rare instances that this ever happened at all.<br />Konstantinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13701303189143549671noreply@blogger.com