tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post27930007777756292..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: Judaism & the Pauline RiteThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-8487214472842796632014-12-18T13:10:39.237-06:002014-12-18T13:10:39.237-06:00In fairness, the Germans also make fantastic cars ...In fairness, the Germans also make fantastic cars - albeit preferably not employed at the same time as the beer.Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-14305392213362990202014-12-17T10:09:41.551-06:002014-12-17T10:09:41.551-06:00Τῶν θεοκτόνων ὁ ἑσµός, Ἰουδαίων ἔθνος τὸ ἄνοµον, m...Τῶν θεοκτόνων ὁ ἑσµός, Ἰουδαίων ἔθνος τὸ ἄνοµον, may be rendered as, "The swarm of the deicidal, the nation of the lawless [or impious] Jews..."<br /><br />We might also want to consider three things: <br /><br />One, the Jewish nation crucified their Messiah: "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know - this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men" (Acts 2:22-23).<br /><br />Two, we must read Paul's epistle to the Romans, chs. 9-11, esp. "I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means!...So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" (Rom 11:1, 11-12)<br /><br />Three, if a preterist or quasi-preterist interpretation of the Apocalypse is assumed, then Israel has received the judgment of God, especially in AD 70, as the spiritual harlot, as Sodom, as Egypt.A. T. Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02816243030572765014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-87034835345465117212014-12-17T10:04:04.898-06:002014-12-17T10:04:04.898-06:00Thanks for the file Lord of Bollocks.
The phrase ...Thanks for the file Lord of Bollocks.<br /><br />The phrase in question is: "Τὸν τοῦ νόμου Ποιητήν, ἐκ μαθητοῦ ὠνήσαντο ἄνομοι"<br /><br />Translating ἄνομοι as "lawless and treacherous nation" is... dynamic equivalence, to say the least. In any case it does in fact seem to be exclusively referring to Jesus' deliverers, not all the Jews.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-79868013635965399342014-12-17T08:11:56.757-06:002014-12-17T08:11:56.757-06:00I think it depends on the translation. If anyone ...I think it depends on the translation. If anyone wants to translate the following literally from the Greek, we can find out:<br /><br />http://www.denver.goarch.org/liturgical/triodion/holy_week/hf_matins.pdf<br /><br />According to them the English Translastion is:<br />"The law-transgressors do truly buy the<br />Law-Ordainer from a disciple. And<br />they bring Him as a law-breaker before<br />Pilate, crying out that He Who gives<br />them manna in the wilderness should<br />be crucified"<br /><br />So it would not be a condemnation of the Jewish people as a whole, but the "Law transgressors", if this translation is to be believed.Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-28759724098533505582014-12-17T07:43:28.458-06:002014-12-17T07:43:28.458-06:00I assume you mean this, from the Beatitudes after ...I assume you mean this, from the Beatitudes after the Sixth Gospel in Matins on Good Friday: "The swarm of those who would kill God, the lawless nation of the Jews, cried out in fury to Pilate: Crucify Him!" (trans. Ware)<br /><br />I hesitate to comment on this because I don't have the Greek in front of me, but I would surmise that the only people being indicted here are those that actually crucified the Lord. Equating this to mean that the Jews in their totality are an enemy of Christ sounds like a stretch.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-28250982746259272482014-12-17T02:39:38.474-06:002014-12-17T02:39:38.474-06:00It's in the Lenten Triodion for Good Friday.It's in the Lenten Triodion for Good Friday.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-33949277429592224092014-12-17T00:04:24.571-06:002014-12-17T00:04:24.571-06:00Now I feel the need to bust out my Beer Hierarchy....Now I feel the need to bust out my Beer Hierarchy.<br /><br />British (English, Irish, Scottish) Beer >= German-style Texan Beer > German Beer > Asian Beer >>>>>> Mexican Beer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>American Beer.Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-33583829562716153332014-12-16T22:44:38.929-06:002014-12-16T22:44:38.929-06:00For once I am qualified to comment:
No it most cer...For once I am qualified to comment:<br />No it most certainly is not! It is an easy way to induce a restful sleep, but its value ends there. That stuff tastes like crank-case oil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-70700717292974799922014-12-16T18:59:50.064-06:002014-12-16T18:59:50.064-06:00The Mongol rulers of China were a tad more toleran...The Mongol rulers of China were a tad more tolerant of the Assyrian-Rite Christians in their domain. The Nestorian Stele caused a bit of an uproar when it was discovered in 1625. <br /><br />Too bad the Chinese, Japanese and Korean Christians were (according to Leonard Feeney) barred from heaven due to the first "not being in communion" with Rome and the other two probably doing the sacrament of Baptism with the wrong form without a Western priest to teach them. #SarcasmEcclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-43123174962792631102014-12-16T18:32:32.604-06:002014-12-16T18:32:32.604-06:00Korea had Catholics before they had priests or mis...Korea had Catholics before they had priests or missionaries. The first Christian community there was founded by a native Korean that converted to Catholicism after reading the Roman Missal.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-16010524603441230862014-12-16T18:31:38.575-06:002014-12-16T18:31:38.575-06:00May I ask wherein?May I ask wherein?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-83885875448854801752014-12-16T17:10:54.162-06:002014-12-16T17:10:54.162-06:00Interesting! And didn't the Polos discover Nes...Interesting! And didn't the Polos discover Nestorian Christians at the court of Kublai Khan, i.e. descendants of Nestorian missionaries' converts centuries before?Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-59466797689270091022014-12-16T13:58:33.111-06:002014-12-16T13:58:33.111-06:00Anyone remember when Scott Hahn made it big in the...Anyone remember when Scott Hahn made it big in the mid-1990s with his "Fourth Cup" presentation? It was based on the probably-anachronistic notion that even in the time of our Lord the Jews were celebrating the Passover seder like those recounted in post-70 rabbinic sources.A. T. Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02816243030572765014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-1087836562563946062014-12-16T12:04:59.169-06:002014-12-16T12:04:59.169-06:00Well, the liturgy is not solely limited to the Rom...Well, the liturgy is not solely limited to the Roman Rite. In the Byzantine Rite the Jews are called a lawless and treacherous nation who devised vain things against Christ.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-53339480648575136152014-12-16T11:24:13.400-06:002014-12-16T11:24:13.400-06:00When were Jews spoken of as Christ's enemies i...When were Jews spoken of as Christ's enemies in the rites? If you're talking about the word "perfidis" being deleted, I am of the understanding that it was done so to prevent misunderstanding (it can be mistranslated as "treacherous" when the intent was moreso "unbelieving"), not because it was inherently erroneous. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-40899673298868466092014-12-16T11:02:25.622-06:002014-12-16T11:02:25.622-06:00Whether his traddiness realizes it or not, his exa...Whether his traddiness realizes it or not, his example is less hypothetical than it may seem. As late as the 19th century there were Europeans finding Christian villages in remote areas of Western China (where the Church of the East had sent missionaries in the 7th and 8th centuries). The villages had been without priests since the 10th century (due to the Tang Dynasty persecuting all "foreign" religions) and the faithful continued on believing and praying together as they could despite the lack of priestly sacraments. Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-14632470872498567482014-12-16T10:49:46.351-06:002014-12-16T10:49:46.351-06:00Yes, the Jews are no longer to be spoken of as Chr...Yes, the Jews are no longer to be spoken of as Christ's enemies, are they? Not since Nostra Aetate reversed centuries of true doctrine.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-31490934128819237522014-12-16T10:35:22.830-06:002014-12-16T10:35:22.830-06:00The rabbinical model is the default setting for mo...The rabbinical model is the default setting for most Protestant groups. A few large denominations have liturgical worship, but the rest are a dissolute rabble of autonomous communities led by elected and easily replaceable preachers. I was recently in attendance at a service where a family member was prayed over by his evangelical community to become an elder (he is younger than I). This is the sort of ecclesiastical setting I grew up around, so my first liturgical experience—among the Lutherans, as it turned out—was quite the eye-opener.<br /><br />Your hypothetical situation of northern Chinese Catholics being cut off from the priestly ministry is basically what happened to Japanese Catholics for a few centuries, if I'm not mistaken. They ended up with some very bizarre Marian cults by the time priests were allowed back onto the islands.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02124903563459448051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-4681742618762379282014-12-16T10:06:12.879-06:002014-12-16T10:06:12.879-06:00I would also point out, as you all well know, that...I would also point out, as you all well know, that this started before the New Order Mass with the Good Friday oration for the Jews, changing both its language and rubrics.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13240425842855092083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-62354191839984845602014-12-16T09:00:04.482-06:002014-12-16T09:00:04.482-06:00But... Spaten Optimator is delicious.But... Spaten Optimator is delicious.Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-6644298502632872922014-12-16T04:46:09.089-06:002014-12-16T04:46:09.089-06:00The beer you get in the US may be (a) German, and ...The beer you get in the US may be (a) German, and therefore (b) a Bad Thing. In in England it is (a) English, and therefore, (b) a Good Thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-65157661131297942372014-12-16T01:57:38.439-06:002014-12-16T01:57:38.439-06:00Rad Trad, if you're interested in Fr Cekada...Rad Trad, if you're interested in Fr Cekada's research on the variable parts of the new Mass, you may be interested in some of the resources I have put together, available for free download on my blog: http://catholiclectionary.blogspot.co.uk.<br /><br />My work is mainly lectionary-focused, but at the moment I'm working on making the sources of the postcommunion prayers of the new Mass easily accessible, so people can see for themselves where those prayers come from, what changes/edits were made to the original prayers, etc. The Proper of Time is already done, and I've just started on the Proper of Saints and the Commons.<br /><br />(Please forgive the shameless self-promotion!)Matthew Hazellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13140839291971762017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-54417578685418237982014-12-15T23:19:45.051-06:002014-12-15T23:19:45.051-06:00Yes, seder meal blessings from c.200 AD, a staple ...Yes, seder meal blessings from c.200 AD, a staple of Rabbinical Judaism.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-38899778235928333572014-12-15T22:04:03.899-06:002014-12-15T22:04:03.899-06:00This does provide an interesting perspective to th...This does provide an interesting perspective to the novus ordo offertory prayers, which are based on Jewish berakah blessings.A. T. Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02816243030572765014noreply@blogger.com