tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post7756729741823363760..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: Not A RestorationThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-8822501821524468582014-08-29T04:37:07.898-05:002014-08-29T04:37:07.898-05:00And himself says that at St. Paul Outside the Wall...And himself says that at St. Paul Outside the Walls (the only Roman basilica oriented towards East) Mass was celebrated <i>ad Orientem</i> up to 1823!!<br /><br />I don't know about churches outside Rome. I think the basilica of Torcello (Venice) has been thought to have had a <i>versus populum</i> celebration, despite it is oriented towards East. But I have no data anymore. And I agree with you about the iconostasis - this author says that rood screens are an "aberration" from late Middle Ages (¡!¡!¡!)...<br /><br />Kyrie eleisonἸουστινιανόςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853873178362328543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-67510820498510910032014-08-28T14:20:52.661-05:002014-08-28T14:20:52.661-05:00Yeah i get what he's trying to say. But even i...Yeah i get what he's trying to say. But even if he were to make that argument, look at the position of the martyrial basilicas. They're all oriented east-west. So even if the priest faced the congregation it was because he faced east. And he in fact didn't face the congregation but they stood in the side naves. And also their view of the sanctuary was obscured by predecessors of iconostasis and rood screen.<br /><br />Also, that practice was prevalent in Rome. Not in other places.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-24763763327372711522014-08-28T14:02:37.940-05:002014-08-28T14:02:37.940-05:00Post-Conciliar orthopraxis will become truly ortho...Post-Conciliar orthopraxis will become truly orthopractical when they use books prior to the time of the first photograph.<br /><br />Kyrie eleisonἸουστινιανόςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853873178362328543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-72085121959327546752014-08-28T14:00:38.108-05:002014-08-28T14:00:38.108-05:00Thank you to all!!
Actually the main point in th...Thank you to all!! <br /><br />Actually the main point in that article's view is that oriented Liturgy was originally practised only in the East, not in the West, where the placing of altars over martyrs' tombs resulted in an "almost universal" discipline of Mass facing the people - till the "innovation" of oriented prayer and, avove all, the introduction of low Masses gave away with versus populum (in the author's view). The author misses his own point several times, seriously confusing himself. Well, after all it is just a plain apology of the introduction of that practice in the 1940s.<br /><br />This is the article, for if someone here reads French maybe he wants to laugh for a while:<br />http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6555275r/f95.image.r=La%20Maison-Dieu%20:%20cahiers%20de%20pastorale%20liturgique.langFR<br /><br />And thank you one more time.<br />Kyrie eleisonἸουστινιανόςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853873178362328543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-5920826022006265252014-08-28T11:11:46.462-05:002014-08-28T11:11:46.462-05:00I guess you could also look at Uwe Michael Lang...I guess you could also look at Uwe Michael Lang's "Turning Toward the Lord."<br /><br />Here is a page with links to some relevant articles (ignoring the Reform of the Reform politics): http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2013/aug/22/versus-ad-populum-conversus-ad-orientem/The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-20111974570529346512014-08-28T06:32:37.213-05:002014-08-28T06:32:37.213-05:00http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html
chapter xii...http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html<br />chapter xiiMarko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-79363097157104117622014-08-28T01:37:02.292-05:002014-08-28T01:37:02.292-05:00I suppose one could argue the triumph of post-Conc...I suppose one could argue the triumph of post-Conciliar orthopraxis over pre-Conciliar heteropraxis. I wonder what Gerard Ellard would have thought?Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-45692435700022368792014-08-27T16:54:01.245-05:002014-08-27T16:54:01.245-05:00A start could be the episode of 'Firing Line&#...A start could be the episode of 'Firing Line' where Davies articulates clearly to a Monsignor that versus populum was only done in a few Roman basilicas in order to face the East.<br /><br />Also, Cardinal Ratzinger's 'The Spirit of the Liturgy' is a good one.<br /><br />http://www.adoremus.org/0500-Ratzinger.html<br /><br />http://www.sacredarchitecture.org/articles/the_eschatological_dimension_of_church_architecture/Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-11112316414845450512014-08-27T16:39:57.425-05:002014-08-27T16:39:57.425-05:00That is truly beautiful to see: the evil at its ro...That is truly beautiful to see: the evil at its root being made right! And yes, it takes time and dedication to grow a congregation; fortunately, grace has a greater, more powerful effect when it is supplied and received more freely, viz. in the Holy Sacrifice offered to God without the dilution of entertaining the flock.Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-2836392852368575512014-08-27T16:39:23.580-05:002014-08-27T16:39:23.580-05:00Dear Rad Trad: do you know where could I find some...Dear Rad Trad: do you know where could I find some information about the celebrant's position in the Late Antiquity liturgy? I'm reading a paper from <i>La maison-Dieu</i> (1945), where the author repeats all the topics about versus populum as the normal position in ancient times, and my blood is becoming hotter and hotter. I don't know about more recent research on the matter. Thank you!<br /><br />Kyrie eleisonἸουστινιανόςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853873178362328543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-79100085135279864612014-08-27T14:32:23.555-05:002014-08-27T14:32:23.555-05:00The only problem is that the turbam in the first p...The only problem is that the <i>turbam</i> in the first photo is a lot bigger than what the other photos show.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03635743377768116998noreply@blogger.com