tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post8241342953949066387..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: The Parisian Missal I: Ordinary of Mass & PrefacesThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-88090197264150515732020-05-16T12:39:25.657-05:002020-05-16T12:39:25.657-05:00Thanks for this, but I have a question:
Wouldn...Thanks for this, but I have a question:<br /><br />Wouldn't these alterations be prohibited by Quo Primum which prohibited 'anything added or any change whatsoever' to the Roman Missal?DANhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06569992672643026840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-50716277500645674552013-09-20T03:09:42.005-05:002013-09-20T03:09:42.005-05:00On the Acolythe: I find so interesting your commen...On the Acolythe: I find so interesting your comments on the servers (acolythes) role in the Mass, because I have remembered your previous statement that in the Middle Ages servers wore aso tunicles, like subdeacons: and, in fact, in Spain there was, until the 1960s (maybe until today), the usage of acolythes and (perhaps) thuriferars wearing subdeacon's tunicles. I am sure of it in the Cathedral of Sevilla, were Archibishop Lorenzana, (s. XVIII) tried to destroy this usage, believing it was a kind of "deviation"; I have no information about the other dioceses, but I have heard that it was a quite widespread usage. Do you think it is a relic of that more "active" role of the servers in medieval Roman Mass?<br /><br />Thank you.<br />Kyrie eleisonἸουστινιανόςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853873178362328543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-91055431589468783922013-09-19T23:44:51.151-05:002013-09-19T23:44:51.151-05:00It's all very convoluted. There may well be so...It's all very convoluted. There may well be some older Parisian Missals, but I am not aware of them. From reading the Missal it seems as though they adopted the Roman Ordo Missae but kept their own ceremonies and propers. The above articles from Gregory diPippo are fascinating, but focus on the breviary; the only real concern, it seems, is that a few of the Masses did not esteem Papal power too greatly.<br /><br />In the Byzantine rite the acolyte is really just a server. The subdeacon is something of a minister, but his only real need is at pontifical liturgy, as his role is to assist the bishop. Readers just do the readings and cantors sing. Trent defined minor and major orders, while before Trent they were seen as in gradation but not in separation (minor from major). This is why the acolyte was an actual minister of Mass in many local rites: he would carry the gifts in the humeral veil to the priest and to the altar; he would hold the paten; carry the cross etc. Part of this might be that one used to study for the priesthood much like how one would apprentice for a trade. The ministerial role of the acolyte may have been a form of easing into solemn Mass. At Papal Mass the subdeacon, in a humeral veil (which he wore through the Canon), brought the bread to the altar (which would be tasted for poison) while the sacristan, also in a veil, brought the chalice.<br /><br />In retrospect I cannot see how people thought the Tridentine Mass was decadent or that anything was excessive in it. Compared to local uses and to Papal Mass it was incredibly simple.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-3491426798552972722013-09-19T23:26:47.988-05:002013-09-19T23:26:47.988-05:00Thank you for the articles! I will certainly be lo...Thank you for the articles! I will certainly be looking at the Papal feasts before the next post.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-51416612118492204842013-09-19T13:28:03.893-05:002013-09-19T13:28:03.893-05:00Immensely interesting! Are there any older Parisia...Immensely interesting! Are there any older Parisian missals extant?<br />As for the matter of the acolyte, wasn't it Trent that "lessened" the importance of minor orders? What is there status in the East?Marco da Vinhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06092410765851812842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-49663996456127899592013-09-19T13:25:18.847-05:002013-09-19T13:25:18.847-05:00The communion being prescribed would definitely no...The communion being prescribed would definitely not be Jansenist! Antoine Arnauld, a very prominent Jansesnit, wrote a book attacking the practice of frequent communion. Also these two links from NLM on the Neo-Gallican breviary should interest you: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2009/09/compendium-of-reforms-of-roman-breviary_29.html<br /><br />http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2009/10/compendium-of-reforms-of-roman-breviary.htmlAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13383110539395182885noreply@blogger.com