tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post1654702234727242048..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: After the Reformation III: The Incomplete ChristianThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-193605969962965772017-07-08T09:01:13.566-05:002017-07-08T09:01:13.566-05:00Son is not only unindentical to the Father in that...Son is not only unindentical to the Father in that that he's not the Father, but also in that that he is not the unoriginated origin of Divinity.<br /><br />The article simply doesn't deal with the different meanings of Latin and Greek words for "proceed".<br /><br />St. Maximos was defending latins by saying that they don't believe that the Spirit proceeds from the Son in exactly the same way as he does from the Father. Today, latins don't even know that the Father is the sole unoriginate origin of the Divinity and that all the Son has, he has from the Father. It sure was a novelty for me a few years ago when i learnt it...Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-49623106306760305602017-07-08T07:18:09.566-05:002017-07-08T07:18:09.566-05:00http://www.keepthefilioque.com/2013/09/the-filioqu...http://www.keepthefilioque.com/2013/09/the-filioque-what-is-at-stake/Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-83538019430686085482017-07-08T07:08:54.812-05:002017-07-08T07:08:54.812-05:00Dear Marko. Well, whatever it is, we can be sure t...Dear Marko. Well, whatever it is, we can be sure that referring to The One True Holy <b> Roman</b> Catholic and Apostolic Church is essentially forbidden because Triumphalism.Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-33739706012834855802017-07-08T00:20:22.420-05:002017-07-08T00:20:22.420-05:00I have read various explanations of the "in&q...I have read various explanations of the "in" copula. None are satisfactory to me.<br /><br />Ordinary reading of the copula simply posits two separate entities of which one is situated in the other, with possible room for other entities. Moreover, that kind of juxtaposition of entities results not only in lexical difference, but in true ontological difference, as if there was a Church of Christ which is a numerically different entity from the Catholic Church.<br /><br />Now, if one would read that "in" as in "consists in", that would be a happier reading because that kind of reading approximates to identifications of the juxtaposed entities.<br /><br />So, the key problem is mutual identity of those things which are designated by various terms. I.e., there can be a lexical but not semantic and ontological difference.<br /><br />I should be able to say "The Synagogue of Christ", "The Body of Christ", "The people of God", "The assembly of God", in the same sentence and still mean the "Church of Christ", which has marks of being one, holy, catholic and apostolic.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-82847764593431588462017-07-06T09:11:41.322-05:002017-07-06T09:11:41.322-05:00Msgr. Gherardini. This auto-correct is irksomeMsgr. Gherardini. This auto-correct is irksomeMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-15461678473705873792017-07-06T09:10:42.931-05:002017-07-06T09:10:42.931-05:00Dear Marko. Because the reading of particular sou...Dear Marko. Because the reading of particular sources, ABS used to think that also, but Msgr. Gherardasini rescues its use by reading LG 8 and UR 3 together so as to arrive at a metaphysical solution: <i>It was, according to my judgement, the only way to distance the conciliar text from the shadow of a doctrinal compromise</i><br /><br />Page 269 "The Ecumenical Vatican Council II A MUCH NEEDED DISCUSSION.<br /><br />Page 271 is a rehearsal of his keen injections and frustrations with the councilor language but he is insistent <i> subsitit in </i> <i>describes the only true Catholic Church</i><br /><br />ABS has no way on knowing if the description of the Msgr is true or not- a great Thomist - but he pulls no punches is this great book. Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-51750895447946606282017-07-05T12:52:12.323-05:002017-07-05T12:52:12.323-05:00The Deharbe Catechism doesn't use the word &qu...The Deharbe Catechism doesn't use the word "Subsists".<br />"Because from the time of Christ she has continually existed with the same teaching,the same priestly,and the same Pastoral Office as at the present time.Because she is spread over the whole universe,and because she is constantly spreading,in accordance with the Divine Commission,<br />"Go ye into the whole world,and preach the gospel to every creature"Catholic Statehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09107971443683193051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-45701144574680666532017-07-05T08:19:24.678-05:002017-07-05T08:19:24.678-05:00J., very fine essay. Very germane, I think, is one...J., very fine essay. Very germane, I think, is one of the old scholastic principles tacitly set aside nowadays (ever since the 1960's--surprise!): "To say that something is <i>secundum quid</i> good is to say that <i>simpliciter</i> it is bad." <br /> <br />If I may illustrate: to say that Protestants, <i>et al.</i>, are in communion <i>secundum quid</i> ("according to a particular aspect") means that <i>simpliciter</i> ("in essence" or "on the whole") they are not in communion.<br /> <br />Another neglected principle that has equally awful implications in contemporary discussions is: "Where there is distinction, there is hierarchy." But that's better left for another day.Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-63624584439933744012017-07-04T09:35:12.383-05:002017-07-04T09:35:12.383-05:00The verb "subsistere" is not problematic...The verb "subsistere" is not problematic in itself. It's usage is.<br /><br />The "in" of LG is problematic and even if you put "exsistit" before it, so that you get "Haec Ecclesia, (...), exsistit in Ecclesia catholica", the problem doesn't go away.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-11079653546291641912017-07-04T08:19:47.968-05:002017-07-04T08:19:47.968-05:00About the obscure reference:
https://en.wikipedia...About the obscure reference:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Beckett,_1st_Baron_GrimthorpeMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-30311602914365269072017-07-04T08:14:00.626-05:002017-07-04T08:14:00.626-05:00One last interesting and seeming anomaly from The ...One last interesting and seeming anomaly from The Baltimore Catechism:<br /><br />Q. 564. How is the Church Catholic or universal?<br /><br />A. The Church is Catholic or universal because it <b>subsists</b> in all ages, teaches all nations, and maintains all truth.Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-49476480591882044432017-07-04T08:06:40.936-05:002017-07-04T08:06:40.936-05:00Baltimore Catechism entries on full (and, thus, im...Baltimore Catechism entries on full (and, thus, implying partial?) communion:<br /><br />169a. What conditions are necessary in order that a person be a member of the Mystical Body in the full sense?<br /><br />In order that a person be a member of the Mystical Body in the full sense, it is necessary that he be baptized, that he profess the Catholic faith, and that he neither separate himself from the Mystical Body nor be excluded by lawful authority.<br /><br />And if he refuses to hear them, appeal to the Church, but if he refuses to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican. (Matthew 18:17)<br /><br />169b. How does a baptized person separate himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body?<br /><br />A baptized person separates himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by open and deliberate heresy, apostasy or schism.<br /><br />169c. How does a baptized person separate himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by heresy?<br /><br />A baptized person separates himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by heresy when he openly rejects or doubts some doctrine proposed by the Catholic Church as a truth of divine-Catholic faith, though still professing himself a Christian.<br /><br />169d. When does a baptized person separate himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by apostasy?<br /><br />A baptized person separates himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by apostasy when he openly rejects the entire Christian faith.<br /><br />169e. When does a baptized person separate himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by schism?<br /><br />A baptized person separates himself from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by schism when he openly refuses obedience to the lawful authorities of the Church, particularly to the Pope.<br /><br />169f. When is a baptized person separated from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by lawful authority?<br /><br />A baptized person is separated from full incorporation in the Mystical Body by lawful authority when he incurs one of the more severe forms of excommunication.<br />Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-25868849783290158502017-07-04T06:29:04.681-05:002017-07-04T06:29:04.681-05:00Excellent post. Kudos.
ABS wonders how many know ...Excellent post. Kudos.<br /><br />ABS wonders how many know that every child Baptised with the trinitarian formula is automatically Catholic -every single protestant one of them. It is only when the Baptised child gains maturity (say, about seven) and refuses the authority of the Church that he becomes a heretic.<br /><br />What Grimthorpe did to St Albans Cathedral in England is what Vatican Two did to the Church and so we Catholics no longer speak about a perfect society (both Church and State are perfect societies in that each has the means to actualise the ends for which it was created) but, as J. observed, we have full communion this and partial communion that.<br /><br />One weird thing about the new expression of the faith is that The Baltimore Catechism teaches a very similar view of the Church.<br /><br />ABS remembers this and now he will have to go and fetch it because it makes for an interesting bit of info.Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-12985665259165747482017-07-03T01:38:12.438-05:002017-07-03T01:38:12.438-05:00Best post in the series! Keep it up!Best post in the series! Keep it up!Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.com