tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post67204097255905658..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: Why Every Rad Trad Should Aspire to Become a Thomist, Part 2The Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-16880562764165901852017-03-16T16:24:04.281-05:002017-03-16T16:24:04.281-05:00My only thought: Whether Dionysius is or isn’t a f...My only thought: Whether Dionysius is or isn’t a fraud is a moot point: he and Boethius are sorely underappreciated by certain schools. Matthew Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00958673318312786618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-20610424378047715712017-03-11T11:03:01.555-06:002017-03-11T11:03:01.555-06:00LOL. I once made the mistake of commenting on tha...LOL. I once made the mistake of commenting on that site. I awoke an angry "If you don't agree with the pope you aren't Catholic!" mob.Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-34278783252941919592017-03-10T01:41:50.203-06:002017-03-10T01:41:50.203-06:00"It would be Patheos..." LOL. No wonder ..."It would be Patheos..." LOL. No wonder Shea enjoys his time there! :DMarko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-53283769659863331252017-03-09T18:44:32.393-06:002017-03-09T18:44:32.393-06:00"In necessariis unitas..."
How very Ren..."In necessariis unitas..."<br /><br />How very Renaissance!J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04821093432726247774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-18581381702137816262017-03-09T17:39:00.816-06:002017-03-09T17:39:00.816-06:00In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omni...In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas<br /><br />Valid differences of opinion and varying viewpoints are what have made the comment sections of this blog fun and rewarding. If it ever devolved into an echo chamber, safe space, or personality cult around the author(s) then it would lose all purpose. It would be Patheos.Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-85324713397599761262017-03-09T07:39:51.496-06:002017-03-09T07:39:51.496-06:00Well having the last word and zeal for knowledge w...Well having the last word and zeal for knowledge wouldn't seem compatible to me. They would be mutually exclusive even.<br />So i would rather have zeal for knowledge than the last word :D<br /><br />And i would say though, again, that, one should read everything, but also test everything one has read. <br />CE is not without its weaknesses, but my opinion is that its strengths outweigh its weaknesses by far.<br />There are many things one could dismiss but i don't think CE is one of those things.<br /><br />God bless! :)Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-36116094456272039822017-03-09T06:40:25.556-06:002017-03-09T06:40:25.556-06:00Marko, You seem to want to have the last word, whi...Marko, You seem to want to have the last word, which I don't necessarily begrudge you, but as you say, a comment on a parenthetical note in a blog post is hardly the place to hash out the questions surrounding St. Dionysius or the martyrdom of St. Lawrence. Much better, I think, to give links or references for further reading for those who are interested. I appreciate your zeal for knowledge, though. All the best to you!Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-10688797006311858722017-03-09T02:51:37.691-06:002017-03-09T02:51:37.691-06:001. Well he goes on to prove his assertion by point...1. Well he goes on to prove his assertion by pointing that Acta mention Decius present at the trial, when Decius was dead for 7 years already, and that those Acta thereby lose their credibility.<br />I don't see much of gratuitousness there.<br />Well, as regards to CE, one can always say to himself: "What is ultimately asserted gratuitously and therefore can be rejected gratuitously.", so it wouldn't be hard to read the CE fruitfully.<br /><br />2. Well those blanket statements aren't the grounds on which the assertion that he is not who he says he is rests. We know that from other evidence, and thus, we can conclude, that where he says those things, he does so to give greater authority to his works.<br />Now, it is fairly certain that he borrowed entire passages from Proclus, but be that as it may, the fact that he has a chapter on monastic consecration in his Ecclesiastical Hierarchy should allude to the fact of pseudonymity or at least historical mistaking of 5/6 century Dionysius for the 1st century Dionysius. Or, the fact that he mentions "mystical proclamation of the holy tablets", which are, as far as i can see, dyptichs, and he mentions the "universal Song of Praise", and a "hymn" in other place, which st. Maximos explains as the Symbol of Faith.<br /><br />As to the article of James Parker to which you point.<br />-The Chronicle of Flavius Lucius Dexter is a forgery by Jerónimo Román de la Higuera. Moreover, the exact place of this quote is not given.<br />-The letter to pope st. Xystus II. I haven't found the quote anywhere except in the Parker's article, and in Auguste Vidieu's book "Saint Denys l'Aréopagite, Évêque d'Athènes et de Paris, patron de la France", where he doesn't know whether the letter is authentic or not (p. 73.).<br />Paul Rorem, in his book "John of Scythopolis and the Dionysian Corpus: Annotating the Areopagite", on page 105., in footnote 27., just posits as given that the said letter isn't authentic.<br /><br />There is much more, but there is no time nor is this the place.<br />Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-31670793279124476932017-03-08T11:47:35.273-06:002017-03-08T11:47:35.273-06:00"Media Vita" can be found in the Lenten ..."Media Vita" can be found in the Lenten volume of Dom Guerager's Liturgical Year. The SSPX hymnal has the chant setting.French Vanilla Decafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03542882011348686763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-67473577920929873422017-03-08T09:37:13.750-06:002017-03-08T09:37:13.750-06:00Marko,
1. Again, it's not the sources cited o...Marko, <br />1. Again, it's not the sources cited or referenced, it's the selection and omission that is problematic. Healy's "The Valerian Persecution" is available on line. Pp. 181-183 give us the same kind of "historicist" view of events as the CE article: "Recent criticism has denuded the story of its most dramatic features, and relegated to the realm of fable everything but the single fact that St. Laurence died the death of a martyr." This is not to detract from Healy's research, for he certainly attempts to justify his conclusions and consults sources worthy of attention. But his harrowing of "fact" from "fable" is ultimately asserted gratuitously and therefore can be rejected gratuitously. Nevertheless, as I wrote, the main problem with the CE in these cases is the lack of balance in the articles themselves, not necessarily in the sources listed.<br /><br />2. Regarding Dionysius: here is an example of the "blanket judgments": (not verbatim) Dionysius' references to hearing St. Paul et al. is meant to deceive (we are told). That--in my opinion--is the question at issue, not some "given" we should be gratuitously asked to believe. Here are a few articles (assembled on a blog post) that may help answer questions about the references and literary witnesses to St. Dionysius' authorship of the works traditionally attributed to him: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/genuiness-of-writings-of-dionysius.html Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-33917048163952464182017-03-08T08:08:23.755-06:002017-03-08T08:08:23.755-06:00Btw. we all have our narratives and slight confirm...Btw. we all have our narratives and slight confirmation biases. I will be first to admit. Abandoning narratives is painful, and i meant no offense.<br /><br />And don't misunderstand me Rad Trad. I don't dislike you. You're my favourite blog. You've taken precedence over NLM several years ago.<br />You've dispelled many myths about devotionalism and liturgical history and i have rejoiced in those posts greatly.<br />But the work doesn't finish, at least it seems to me, at a given point in time, say 14th century or so.<br /><br />I guess you and i are idealistic about different things.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-42269450244255601962017-03-08T07:58:39.376-06:002017-03-08T07:58:39.376-06:00@The Rad Trad. Go on.@The Rad Trad. Go on.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-20319597908317471612017-03-08T07:57:36.076-06:002017-03-08T07:57:36.076-06:00In an article on pope st. Sixtus II they say that ...In an article on pope st. Sixtus II they say that the meeting: "...is probably a mere legend.".In the article on persecutions in general, in the footnote they say: "and for an exhaustive literature see Healy, "The Valerian Persecution" (Boston).", which is from 1905, and thus, that would lead one to those contemporaneous reports.<br /><br />About Dionysius, as to the first, what are the authors referencing, what are they referencing, and what does that intend to prove, and as to the other one, i am not understanding what you're trying to say.<br />Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-13317517216582909652017-03-08T07:49:39.086-06:002017-03-08T07:49:39.086-06:00@ Fr Capreolus: That's much nicer than what I ...@ Fr Capreolus: That's much nicer than what I was going to say.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-14983721632112623312017-03-08T07:06:25.477-06:002017-03-08T07:06:25.477-06:00Rad Trad, What a great anecdote about "De Ent...Rad Trad, What a great anecdote about "De Ente et Essentia"! Thank you for that.<br /><br />Marko, regarding the CE (1909-1911): in some cases--for instance, the case I address above--it's not a matter of citations provided, it's the omission of other relevant facts and citations: the references to Dionysius, e.g., by writers prior to A.D. 450, the citations in Dionysius from Aristotle attributed to Proclus, etc. Then again, blanket judgments are pronounced on views to the contrary of the contributor's. Consider, for example, regarding St. Lawrence Martyr, this statement: "The meeting between St. Lawrence and Pope Sixtus II, when the latter was being led to execution, related by St. Ambrose, is not compatible with the contemporaneous reports about the persecution of Valerian." Really? Whose reports? In what way not compatible? etc., etc. We would never know one way or the other if all we had to rely on was this Encyclopedia article. All we're left with is the author's conclusion that St. Lawrence was most likely never executed on a gridiron. Similar examples could be drawn for several other entries, as TRT indicates.<br /><br />I realize this is all parenthetical to the main points of my article and probably not worth so many words, but as one last point, I would urge you (as I would anyone) to refrain from assigning motives to others' opinions; it's much better to address the issues using facts: "Consider what is said rather than who has said it," as St. Thomas advised F. Reginald. Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-82052384048253937492017-03-08T05:09:56.408-06:002017-03-08T05:09:56.408-06:00Thank you, Damascus! I did. I particularly love se...Thank you, Damascus! I did. I particularly love seeing St. Thomas referred to as "beatissimus vir" and "christiani orbis decus": pretty rare for a "Doctor non Pontifex," or for any Saint, for that matter. Thank you again! And God bless you.Capreolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07329413913112615954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-84852011174378352812017-03-08T02:54:07.347-06:002017-03-08T02:54:07.347-06:00I would think that your resentment towards CE stem...I would think that your resentment towards CE stems from the fact that it actually confirms many of the things which the liturgical reformers used as their reasons, so you have a knee-jerk reaction to it because that doesn't fit the narrative you have and which you don't want to abandon. Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-88117323714033954322017-03-08T02:51:56.035-06:002017-03-08T02:51:56.035-06:00About Catholic Encyclopedia. Almost everything the...About Catholic Encyclopedia. Almost everything they claim, they provide the citation. I have researched liturgy much from it, but i didn't go with only what it says, but i have actually looked at the citations themselves, and they never fraudulently addressed anything to anyone, and if they ever had anything that's not conclusive, they say so.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-56809549470169455012017-03-07T21:54:41.682-06:002017-03-07T21:54:41.682-06:00I hope you enjoyed the readings in the second noct...I hope you enjoyed the readings in the second nocturn of Mattins today, Father! Happy feast day!Solitary Sojourning https://www.blogger.com/profile/12091161291027576112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-34200875655116645652017-03-07T20:45:54.984-06:002017-03-07T20:45:54.984-06:00"St. Thomas Always Speaks Most Formally"..."St. Thomas Always Speaks Most Formally"<br /><br />An old girlfriend was charged with reading "De ente et essentia" for a university philosophy class and Thomas's erudition astounded her. "His writing is dense, sparse for words, and never ever uses a word excessively. It's as though he says too much in too little room, but he doesn't."<br /><br />I also think modern Catholics—especially those interested in liturgical history, Scripture, and the papacy—should steer clear of the 1909 Encyclopedia. It may be a good place to start researching citations, but much of its content is festered in the common consensus of doubt that ran rabid when it was written.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.com