tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post7923331283169303141..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: He Descended into Hell: Holy SaturdayThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-39680428768751767562017-04-15T17:40:53.019-05:002017-04-15T17:40:53.019-05:00I attended the Holy Saturday Vesperal Liturgy this...I attended the Holy Saturday Vesperal Liturgy this morning at a Melkite church. It was glorious.Solitary Sojourning https://www.blogger.com/profile/12091161291027576112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-52933319197805283582017-04-15T16:13:18.295-05:002017-04-15T16:13:18.295-05:00Beautiful! Wow - the Novus Ordo really does suck....Beautiful! Wow - the Novus Ordo really does suck.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686466300503725349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-60459818559178382112017-04-15T14:37:33.959-05:002017-04-15T14:37:33.959-05:00He is our sin offering. St. Paul says that he beca...He is our sin offering. St. Paul says that he became sin for us, and catholic interpretation is that he means sin offering.<br />When our Lord rose from the dead, when the Father made him rise, the Father thus ratified and accepted his sacrifice, which was the flesh which he assumed from us.<br /><br />So, by glorificating his Son, it was made possible that he intercedes for us with his glorified humanity and that we have peace through him.<br />Thus, as he will be for ever in Father's glory, so will our Yom Kippur last forever, and because of that he doesn't need to sacrifice himself again. Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-31136393498829082042017-04-15T12:11:25.303-05:002017-04-15T12:11:25.303-05:00Well He is a willing sin offering, among many othe...Well He is a willing sin offering, among many other things. Perhaps I am not understanding the question, but are you suggesting the liturgical theology and written theology are at odds, or maybe at different points of emphasis?<br /><br />I would welcome some discussion about Christ as a sin offering. The past few days in the Byzantine rite I have heard about little other than the Jews and Judas!—tongue in cheek, I know.The Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-48292900034004276612017-04-15T12:01:26.482-05:002017-04-15T12:01:26.482-05:00A bit tangential, but given the OT paschal imagery...A bit tangential, but given the OT paschal imagery of the Vigil how is it the the Church of Rome seems to have a Yom Kippur-ish theology, which seems to emphasize Christ as a kind of sin offering?Marco da Vinhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06092410765851812842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-84921600008828607302017-04-15T07:09:31.215-05:002017-04-15T07:09:31.215-05:00Finally i have a plausible hypothesis about the Ea...Finally i have a plausible hypothesis about the Easter Vigil, it's character and it's timing.<br /><br />At first, it must have been a proper all-night vigil. Night is mentioned all throughout prayers. <br />There is a vestige of vesperal lucernarium as is obvious from the lighting of the Paschal Candle.<br />Then the prophecies would have been read because of the catechumens. Catechumens would then be baptized, and then the Mass proceded from the prayers of the faithful, pax and offertory, onwards (as st. Justin relates).<br />That Mass would end then after midnight.<br /><br />But, as time went on, that kind of a liturgy became too long for people to bear. Not that it was lengthened, but that people's endurance was shortened, so the liturgy was shortened too, and also, possibly, but not necessarily, it was moved a little earlier.<br /><br />So, after those modifications, it acquired a character of a Mass inter vesperas (there is an Ambrosian equivalent - Maundy Thursday is such Mass with them http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2012/04/ambrosian-mass-of-holy-thursday.html#.WPILCYh9600).<br />That's why it has references to night, but also ends with Magnificat.<br />And since it's a Mass inter vesperas, it indeed can't be considered a night vigil.<br /><br />But, my opinion is that there should be a night vigil, which, after singing the praeconium, should include at least the Psalm 140 and its attendance should satisfy Vespers, Vigil and Lauds altogether.<br />The new Rite at least in some way approximates to that which i think should be, and even more than the pre-55 Rites.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.com