tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post8183310106979263197..comments2024-03-12T04:14:16.271-05:00Comments on The Rad Trad: The Jansenist ChurchThe Rad Tradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-49681750958581296532015-11-12T17:48:06.176-06:002015-11-12T17:48:06.176-06:00We could start the case against pews... Round 2 ;)...We could start the case against pews... Round 2 ;)Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-38381268956719953442015-11-12T16:50:17.217-06:002015-11-12T16:50:17.217-06:00One of the local Spanish-speaking parishes often s...One of the local Spanish-speaking parishes often sees a sizable portion of the Mass-goers remain in the pews during Communion. Considering some of these are children, I don't think this can be chalked up to them being mafioso or cartel. I have to wonder if Mexican Catholic culture is not so pushy about getting the laity into the Communion line.<br /><br />I, for one, would love to feel less pressured to receive at every Mass. Unfortunately, the awkwardness of the pew-and-kneeler setup makes anyone who wishes to remain seated very conspicuous, especially if they happen to be sitting in the middle.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04821093432726247774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-44282257527160751592015-11-12T16:37:07.605-06:002015-11-12T16:37:07.605-06:00Also, it's my understanding that reception was...<i>Also, it's my understanding that reception was not that frequent in the pre-VII church.</i><br /><br />If a systematic survey was ever done on this question, I have not come across it. But the anecdotal information I have heard or read, at least from the U.S., was that it wasn't uncommon in mid-century for a good third or more of the congregation to refrain from Communion, with some suggestion that this began creeping upward in the final years as oral contraception began becoming more widely available. Then came <i>le Deluge.</i><br /><br />Of course, that's still a majority receiving, and that's surely more than was likely the norm before Pius X. Jansenism may have been condemned, but that doesn't mean it didn't enjoy a triumph anyway. As the old (1909) <i>Catholic Encyclopedia</i> article on "Frequent Communion" states, despite the condemnations, "the reception of Holy Communion became less and less frequent, owing to the spread of rigid Jansenistic opinions, and this rigour lasted almost into our own day."Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-49887802641004231832015-11-12T16:27:33.007-06:002015-11-12T16:27:33.007-06:00Communion may be the medicine, but the patient mus...<i>Communion may be the medicine, but the patient must first accept the diagnosis.</i><br /><br />A pithy way to put it, though as many have pointed out of late, the real medicine is the Sacrament of Penance.<br /><br />That said, it is remarkable just how Jansenistic the usual liturgical praxis is in the contemporary Church. It's a bizarre funhouse mirror Jansenism, of course, one wherein the only sense of sin remaining is that of social sin, and it's never enough to keep anyone from Communion - and it doesn't.Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3348523519788188753.post-85792829889860072972015-11-12T10:19:57.791-06:002015-11-12T10:19:57.791-06:00I would argue that the greatest first change in Co...I would argue that the greatest first change in Communing policy was when infants started to be denied the Sacrament. It looks to me that the Roman church's policies on Communion were affected by Trent or - rather- a very strange interpretation of Trent.<br /><br />Trent: "Children who have not attained the use of reason are not by any necessity bound to Sacramental Communion of the Eucharist."<br /><br />In other words, somehow "they don't need to go" became "they cannot go" and the age of "discernment" was marked anywhere from ten to fourteen until Pius X encouraged it be dropped to seven. By putting in a mindset that a little child has to be "ready" to receive from the Lord's table (in direct contradiction to the words of Christ in scripture), the stage for Jansenism is already set.<br /><br />Also, it's my understanding that reception was not that frequent in the pre-VII church. The only reason Trads seem to push for more frequent Communion is because Pius X pushed for it. Even then, they have almost a ROCOR level of encouraging Confession before Communion as the Confession lines tend to stream out the door. Nothing wrong with that, it's just an observation. Ecclesial Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17070187926547373245noreply@blogger.com