I am moving from Houston to Fort Worth, TX (permanently) this Saturday to start a new job and anticipate not posting anything for a short while.
I have, finally, added a bar to the left with links to the few blogs I do bother to read. Ecclesial Vigilante is the Lord of Bollock's page. He will be writing about oriental issues and liturgical rites, especially wishing to draw attention to Eastern rites other than the Byzantine rite. He intends to write about the Malankara liturgy soon.
If any of you have suggestions for Eastern Christian reading other than ByzCath and some of the more incendiary Orthodox websites, please put them below.
While I am gone, feel free to start a war in the comment box on any topic that springs to mind!
Will The Liturgical Boutique be moving to Fort Worth, as well, or remaining in Houston ?
ReplyDeleteBest Wishes for the move and the new job.
in Domino
Technically, the Boutique started in Dallas (with the notoriously gay uptown, it fit right in). In Fort Worth, being a true Texas-style town, the Boutique might be a bit out of place. ;)
DeleteWe should open a liturgical boutique in Uptown.
DeleteShops at Legacy?
DeleteNo... Uptown is more fitting. Highland Park or Oak Lawn.
DeleteI'm glad you said Iesus rather than Jesus. There is no "j" in Latin.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy reading Logismoi, an Orthodox site dedicated to Tolkien, the middle ages and such things.
I vs. J; just the kind of combox war Rad Trad had in mind! Classical Latin may not have a J, but living liturgical Latin certainly does! Jucundare!
DeleteAnd what, pray, is "living liturgical Latin?" Of the kind that is not understanded of the people? Or the celebrant? There is no "j" in Latin. How do you pronounce "Jucundare?"
DeleteThe Latin I learned in school had no "j". Do we know if the "j" is the result of orthographic corruption or if it is something imported from a local (Germanic?) tongue?
DeleteLatin has neither "j" nor "v" (only "i" and "u", whose capital form is "V"), "u" in a consonatincal position being pronounced (in Classical Latin) likely as the English "w". The use of "v" (but not of "j") is a mere convention.
DeleteDuring the Middle Ages graphic evolution brought forth the appearing of a form of lenght "i", which later would became our "j", and capital "V" was also written sometimes in a more rounded-shape form, which would became our "U". Also "ae" and "oe", which appeared already in Antiquity as "æ" and "œ" (and there were many more abbreviations like these) were written in Medieval texts most usually as "e". With printing, standardization began: "j" was used after another "i" (e. g. Filij tui), while "v" was used only at the beginning of a word - take a look at any XVI century liturgical book. "I" and "V" were still the only capital forms. Only on the late XVII c. "j/J" and "v/U" began to be used in the way we see in later Breviaries and Missals (and also in vernacular scripts), i. e. with a consonantic function. But, by the end of the XIX century, it became a custom to use only "i" but to retain "v" in printed scripts.
I personally almost never use "v" nor "j" while writing in Latin.
K. e.
So do you write e.g. "formauerunt"?
DeleteI always write Latin with a J; it's easier to read (for me at least). Plus all the liturgical books before 1956 used the J, even in "Alleluja". Rightly or wrongly, I associate the "I" purism with the Pacellian destruction.
DeleteMy brain hurts !!!
DeleteJoseph: exactly!
DeleteAnyway, using "v" and "j" or not is just a personal choice. Nothing more, nothing less.
K. e.
Pope St. Pius X is regularly critiqued on this blog, so you all are probably aware that pronouncing Latin like modern Italian was only universalized during his reign. I surmise that's probably the reason why the I vs J distinction was dropped in the 20th century.
ReplyDeleteSo on that subject, I was wondering if anybody has been to an Old Catholic Church that has used liturgical Latin; and if so, did they pronounce it like Italians?
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DeleteDuring my liberal darkness, I used to serve an "Old Roman Catholic church" during Holy Week. The celebrant there not only pronounced Latin in an Italianate way but assumed a completely different voice, cadence and rhythm altogether that one thought it gave him opportunity to be more theatrical than he ever was in person.
DeleteDear R.T. Good luck with the move and M.J. anticipates with delight your return to this Great Blog.
ReplyDeleteYou are a true treasure of this church during this execrable ecclesiastical epoch.
Good luck with the job, (you'll be easier to track down for that beer we talked about next time I'm in Dallas), but you should still move back to the snow and maple trees! -;)
ReplyDeleteYes, if anyone has any good Eastern Catholic liturgical (especially as regards the non-Byzantine rites) resources they know of please do let me know. I have some knowledge, but I could always use more.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone has anything on the ancient Maronite rituals that would REALLY be something.